#490147 - 09/09/18 08:47 AM
Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
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Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 5708
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Often discussions like this are deleted from the main forum and relegated to the amnesiac nature of the SB, but I am going to be offline for a significant portion of today and will be unable to sustain a long-term debate in that venue until tomorrow. So I am making the argument here in hopes it can be read, clarification achieved, and decisions made. I am making it here as I respect the communities opinions on this. And I am making it here as I am hung over and in need a hair of the rabid vodka wolf which bit off my arm.
This could still be deleted and this discussion held in private if Chief wishes. If you reply to me in the SB I will most likely not see it today.
Yesterday I came in from mowing half the yard, a movie and a good smoke to find CH, one of my best players consiglieres has been banned in a potentially long term punishment. Finals for an event he rightly won are to be passed to the next player in line. The banning occurs at a critical juncture, 1 week prior to an event as we are in full swing in preparations.
In the SB I was told I should know why he was banned, and that he called some players names. CH told me all he did was shit talk The Captain, he would like to be unbanned and is prepared to help us with the event. He is currently banned from the forum but not in game, but coordinating camp participation for a banned player is a logistical nightmare and his main contributions typically occur in our alliance sub anyway.
My first thought on hearing about the banning was did CH come at Chief? That is not like him. Chief has said numerous times in the past that we can say whatever we would like to each other just don't come at him. Simple. So did he? If not why is he long term banned?
Why didn't people just call CH names back as they would before? Verbal Jiu Jitsu was a long tradition on this forum, does this mean CH is the undisputed champ of that? Is this a change that will occur going forward? Are we becomming Neo Pets? Is this happening because we let women into MMA?
If he did not come at chief, did the rules change? I guarantee you more heinous shit has been said between players here with only a 24 hour timeout. 24 hour banning has long been the traditional punishment for going to far at another player, and even then was rarely utilized. So I feel like my player was given a life sentence instead of a night in the drunk tank for a bar fight. Why were we not told about this forum rule change? Should we expect this rule going forward?
I motion to have CHs banning reduced to 24 hour as we were not informed of any changes to the banning rules. Imposing a harsher punishment without warning is a Cecil Peoples level disparity of justice, and by the power of Jon Jone's destroyed nasal cavities I believe that our community is better than that.
Please let me know your thoughts or respond privately if you wish and let us get this sorted out.
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#490180 - 09/09/18 09:27 PM
Re: Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
[Re: BlimBlapZing]
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Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 9501
Loc: PA
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Often discussions like this are deleted from the main forum and relegated to the amnesiac nature of the SB, but I am going to be offline for a significant portion of today and will be unable to sustain a long-term debate in that venue until tomorrow. So I am making the argument here in hopes it can be read, clarification achieved, and decisions made. I am making it here as I respect the communities opinions on this. And I am making it here as I am hung over and in need a hair of the rabid vodka wolf which bit off my arm.
This could still be deleted and this discussion held in private if Chief wishes. If you reply to me in the SB I will most likely not see it today.
Yesterday I came in from mowing half the yard, a movie and a good smoke to find CH, one of my best players consiglieres has been banned in a potentially long term punishment. Finals for an event he rightly won are to be passed to the next player in line. The banning occurs at a critical juncture, 1 week prior to an event as we are in full swing in preparations.
In the SB I was told I should know why he was banned, and that he called some players names. CH told me all he did was shit talk The Captain, he would like to be unbanned and is prepared to help us with the event. He is currently banned from the forum but not in game, but coordinating camp participation for a banned player is a logistical nightmare and his main contributions typically occur in our alliance sub anyway.
My first thought on hearing about the banning was did CH come at Chief? That is not like him. Chief has said numerous times in the past that we can say whatever we would like to each other just don't come at him. Simple. So did he? If not why is he long term banned?
Why didn't people just call CH names back as they would before? Verbal Jiu Jitsu was a long tradition on this forum, does this mean CH is the undisputed champ of that? Is this a change that will occur going forward? Are we becomming Neo Pets? Is this happening because we let women into MMA?
If he did not come at chief, did the rules change? I guarantee you more heinous shit has been said between players here with only a 24 hour timeout. 24 hour banning has long been the traditional punishment for going to far at another player, and even then was rarely utilized. So I feel like my player was given a life sentence instead of a night in the drunk tank for a bar fight. Why were we not told about this forum rule change? Should we expect this rule going forward?
I motion to have CHs banning reduced to 24 hour as we were not informed of any changes to the banning rules. Imposing a harsher punishment without warning is a Cecil Peoples level disparity of justice, and by the power of Jon Jone's destroyed nasal cavities I believe that our community is better than that.
Please let me know your thoughts or respond privately if you wish and let us get this sorted out.
Blim, it's been going on for a long time and i've let it go because that is how i view things. If you guys want to fight and talk shit that's your business but now after getting complaints via PM about how negative people are and that is reason for driving people away i just have to step in and stop him from trolling the sb the way he does. He knew he was going for a reaction and he got one so no i'm not going to reduce sentence just because he's your team mate, CH just talks shit about the game and talks shit about the players and doesn't help the game grow which is vital right now. This was over a long period of time and he was given an extremely long rope and didn't appreciate it. I shouldn't have to make forum rules that include to not say the shit he said.
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#490190 - 09/10/18 07:40 AM
Re: Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
[Re: LCM]
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Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 5708
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Chief has said I wouldn't bother fighting this if it was not an alliance mate of mine, but if that were the case why would I have put so much energy into fighting bans of Judo, Grap, and Jid when they were not part of my alliance? This is what I do, but I will fight twice as hard for a member of my team than any other, and 3 times as hard for my mod.
So people said CH has said toxic things for a long time. Yet he wasn't banned then. I have not even seen where he was warned then. Not sure he's ever got a 24 hour warning ban as has been the standard for a long time. Why now? Why decide on a long term ban now 1 week before an alliance event? CH didn't fuck his alliance, his behavior has not changed. The banning is quickly fucking his alliance though, as instead of putting energy in the event I am putting energy into fighting this foolishness due to losing my co-mod 1 week out. This is not the first time this has happened to a major SFL player just before an event. This is not the second time this has happened to a major SFL player just before an event. This sort of pattern impacts my enjoyment of the game much, much more than any anonymous forum name spouting any sort of anonymous insult or slurs.
And this is not consistent moderation. As I said, many, many times chief has said we can say what we want to each other, just not come after him. Many, many times players have been given 24 hour bans rather than long term ones. Why a long term one now? I guarantee more heinous exclamations in the SB have been met with warning bans in the past.
CHs behavior could change. I have not asked him to. I have not seen anyone else ask him to, most of the time his callouts are met with silence. As I said in the SB this is a bit. He enjoys playing a heel or villain, much like the way heels work in wrestling. If you do not like him the character is succeeding. And it is a character, but is not being fought like a character. It is being fought like a violation of the rules. Are those rules written out? How is he to know he violated the rules? Informally rules have been communicated through the SB, and as stated above his behavior is well within the informal rules range. He has not caught even a 24 hour ban or even a warning for the complaints people are listing that I have seen.
In my opinion explicitly called out behavior after a 24 hour warning ban would warrant more extreme actions, rather than an arbitrary long term ban just before an event as a reaction to long term tolerated behavior. You may not like the way he is acting, but I am asking for him to be called out on it and given a chance to improve rather prior to extreme banning action to be implemented.
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#490203 - 09/10/18 09:27 AM
Re: Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
[Re: BlimBlapZing]
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Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 4722
Loc: California
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We're not really talking about "unwritten rules" here. [-] What are the rules of conduct for the forum? Welcome to the MMArmy forum! Please read all the forum rules before posting/using the speak box. Please Note: The ability to participate on the forum is a privilege and not a right. By using the forum you agree to the following rules. Disregard and breaking of the forum rules will lead to banning/forum access restriction. Moderators have the right to ban and restrict access. Being banned from the forum does not mean you are banned from the game. Do not create an alternate name to publicly post with if you are temporarily banned. That name will be banned as well and your ban may be extended. If you are banned, take the time to consider why you were banned. If you come back to the forum with the same attitude and actions that got you banned, additional bans incurred by you may be longer eventually leading to an ip address ban. Disputes between forum members: If a dispute arises between yourself and another forum member please attempt to resolve it in a civil manner, preferably by Private Message (PM). If a resolution cannot arise PM a moderator or admin to help arbitrate. 1a) Be civil and respectful to your fellow forum users. 1b) No Flaming: Does this really need to be explained? If you find a post you're writing is entirely about insulting someone else, cursing and generally not putting together a logical on-topic argument, pause, count to 10. Please note if members complain to us about constant PM harassment we will step in. 2) Attempt to stay on topic: Related to the above. Some topics naturally move off-topic and we will not be strict on enforcing these. On the whole however, rather than take the current thread off-topic either post a new thread or bump an existing one. 3) No Flame/OT-baiting: No posting of comments where the only purpose is an attempt to get someone else to drag it off topic or get him or her to flame you. Snide remarks, one line off-topic posts with no content etc. 4) Try to avoid double posting: If you need to change a post, edit it rather than post an immediate reply. This is more of a guideline than a rule: if it doesn't appear you're spamming it shouldn't be an issue. 5) This is an all-ages game and forum. Please keep this in mind when posting. A certain level of liberalism is allowed, however please note derogatory terms relating to race, sexuality, gender or religion will be treated harshly. 6) Signature image cannot be bigger than 500 pixels wide and 300px tall (12/1/08--MKick). This is done so that readers with smaller screen resolutions will not have the page stretched in an unreasonable manner. 7) One forum account per user. Do not make multiple accounts. If you want to change your display name pm one of the mods listed at the bottom of these rules. 8) Participation in forum tournaments and competitions is extended only to forum members in good standing (you cannot participate if you are banned). This includes alliance membership and alliance competitions. Now believe me I'm not saying any of this holds water or is truly relevant. It was written 10 years ago by somebody else. Nor am I suggesting that we should all be Smurf Village and sitting around holding hands or anything like that. But I don't think you should be allowed to play the "ignorance of the rules" card when it's generally common sense to not go to the extremes he has. I also think someone should know where the line is as far as playing the "heel card" goes. Right now I'd say CH has X-Pac heat which is to say.. People don't hate the character because he is a good heel, they just hate him because they hate him. I don't really care if CH calls me names or tells me how much I suck at the game or any of that. I choose never to engage him back because it would be like talking trash to Rocky Dennis. But I will admit that it's really frustrating to spend your few days off working on putting an event together for everyone to enjoy and for him to just immediately come and shit on it. Then for it to subsequently evolve into any kind of drama.
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#490206 - 09/10/18 09:37 AM
Re: Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
[Re: DrinkDrankCrunk]
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Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 5708
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Wht's the issue? Here you go -
Chief has said I wouldn't bother fighting this if it was not an alliance mate of mine, but if that were the case why would I have put so much energy into fighting bans of Judo, Grap, and Jid when they were not part of my alliance? This is what I do, but I will fight twice as hard for a member of my team than any other, and 3 times as hard for my mod.
So people said CH has said toxic things for a long time. Yet he wasn't banned then. I have not even seen where he was warned then. Not sure he's ever got a 24 hour warning ban as has been the standard for a long time. Why now? Why decide on a long term ban now 1 week before an alliance event? CH didn't fuck his alliance, his behavior has not changed. The banning is quickly fucking his alliance though, as instead of putting energy in the event I am putting energy into fighting this foolishness due to losing my co-mod 1 week out. This is not the first time this has happened to a major SFL player just before an event. This is not the second time this has happened to a major SFL player just before an event. This sort of pattern impacts my enjoyment of the game much, much more than any anonymous forum name spouting any sort of anonymous insult or slurs.
And this is not consistent moderation. As I said, many, many times chief has said we can say what we want to each other, just not come after him. Many, many times players have been given 24 hour bans rather than long term ones. Why a long term one now? I guarantee more heinous exclamations in the SB have been met with warning bans in the past.
CHs behavior could change. I have not asked him to. I have not seen anyone else ask him to, most of the time his callouts are met with silence. As I said in the SB this is a bit. He enjoys playing a heel or villain, much like the way heels work in wrestling. If you do not like him the character is succeeding. And it is a character, but is not being fought like a character. It is being fought like a violation of the rules. Are those rules written out? How is he to know he violated the rules? Informally rules have been communicated through the SB, and as stated above his behavior is well within the informal rules range. He has not caught even a 24 hour ban or even a warning for the complaints people are listing that I have seen.
In my opinion explicitly called out behavior after a 24 hour warning ban would warrant more extreme actions, rather than an arbitrary long term ban just before an event as a reaction to long term tolerated behavior. You may not like the way he is acting, but I am asking for him to be called out on it and given a chance to improve rather prior to extreme banning action to be implemented.
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#490217 - 09/10/18 11:51 AM
Re: Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
[Re: OEJ]
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Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 2676
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i think the main argument blim is making is for progressive discipline. i honestly had no idea that CH was viewed this way. i'm not super active in the SB so i guess it's not a surprise that i haven't seen any of it. i guess i have three questions as it relates to the banning:
1) was it for talking shit about the game? or
2) was it for talking shit to players? or
3) was it some combination of the above and if so, how much of each factored into it?
depending on the answers to those questions, again, i would go back to the idea of progressive discipline. if the answer to 1 or 2 was "yes, that was the sole reason", then was he explicitly warned about it? was he given the first 24 hour ban for it? if the answer to 3 was "yes, 50/50", then again, was he warned or given some type of initial penalty?
if the idea is that we don't want to scare off new players with his "toxic personality" (snowflakes anyone?), then i would assume this banning would be a wake up call for CH if he were unbanned. this should be the serious warning that he may have never gotten. if he comes back and continues to offend people, then ratchet it up.
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#517512 - 11/08/24 09:02 PM
Re: Banning Rules Clarification and Request for Sentence Reduction
[Re: Matty]
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Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 2660
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