Don't know if this would qualify as unrelated to the thread, but figured I'd post it here since I found it interesting.
To me it seems like a very clear example of ends justifying the means given what was considered optimal advice in regards to raising children, even if the monkeys were quite obviously subjected to horrifying treatment.
It's quite interesting to see how things that would qualify as common sense nowadays were in stark contrast to what was advised back in the day - similar to how cigarettes were thought to have no harm although even more unsettling in this case since we're talking about the "optimal" treatment children were supposed to receive at home.
that was a very disturbing video. i am far from a PETA animal rights activist, but those experiments were way over the top and that doctor was a criminal for what he did to those monkeys.
with that, i'm not opposed to animal testing for human health (not fucking cosmetics or other bullshit). what is the ethical line where testing becomes torture? that line is different for everyone. for me, i would equate it to the supreme courts early definition of obscenity (we don't know how to define it, but we know it when we see it). several factors come into play when trying to draw that line. some are: the animal's level of sentience, the amount of physical pain/discomfort, the amount of emotional pain/discomfort, the length of the various discomforts, and the ability of the animal to recover from said discomforts, to name a few.
trite, when your news sources have sections called "pro trump news" or bill themselves as "#1 pro life news website" you lose all credibility. SH, when you say wuflu same thing.
as for the animal testing stuff, science not sadism please. got lots of respect for folks doing solid anti vivisection and animal rights work (though that space certainly filled with shitty groups/people like most things).
Drink...I provided several links....I already explained I read news from right wing and left wing sources and back away and watch how things unfold lol.
Lawmakers in Wisconsin want an Audit now too. The AZ audit is such a joke lol
trite, when your news sources have sections called "pro trump news" or bill themselves as "#1 pro life news website" you lose all credibility. SH, when you say wuflu same thing.
as for the animal testing stuff, science not sadism please. got lots of respect for folks doing solid anti vivisection and animal rights work (though that space certainly filled with shitty groups/people like most things).
WuFlu was a tongue in cheek comment about the origins of the virus. Apologies that my humor fell flat. Ive posted nothing but credible sources and medical articles and studies this entire thread. Attack the argument not the individual.
As for thr animal testing video that Snake posted. We've been doing worse to humans since the existence of that video. Most of which was done by government sponsored initiatives.
Drink...I provided several links....I already explained I read news from right wing and left wing sources and back away and watch how things unfold lol.
Lawmakers in Wisconsin want an Audit now too. The AZ audit is such a joke lol
You have fallen down some amazingly strange rabbit holes
trite, when your news sources have sections called "pro trump news" or bill themselves as "#1 pro life news website" you lose all credibility. SH, when you say wuflu same thing.
as for the animal testing stuff, science not sadism please. got lots of respect for folks doing solid anti vivisection and animal rights work (though that space certainly filled with shitty groups/people like most things).
WuFlu was a tongue in cheek comment about the origins of the virus. Apologies that my humor fell flat. Ive posted nothing but credible sources and medical articles and studies this entire thread. Attack the argument not the individual.
As for thr animal testing video that Snake posted. We've been doing worse to humans since the existence of that video. Most of which was done by government sponsored initiatives.
what a shitty story. 3 minutes? i'd love to see a much more detailed story about the specifics of the "experiments". again, i will say that those in power that sanctioned these types of experiments should be in jail. horrible...
what a shitty story. 3 minutes? i'd love to see a much more detailed story about the specifics of the "experiments". again, i will say that those in power that sanctioned these types of experiments should be in jail. horrible...
Audio Only, Investigative podcast on the individuals involved and effected in Montreal. Each episode is about 30 mins. Easy listen. Dark Material.
Don't know if this would qualify as unrelated to the thread, but figured I'd post it here since I found it interesting.
To me it seems like a very clear example of ends justifying the means given what was considered optimal advice in regards to raising children, even if the monkeys were quite obviously subjected to horrifying treatment.
It's quite interesting to see how things that would qualify as common sense nowadays were in stark contrast to what was advised back in the day - similar to how cigarettes were thought to have no harm although even more unsettling in this case since we're talking about the "optimal" treatment children were supposed to receive at home.
that was a very disturbing video. i am far from a PETA animal rights activist, but those experiments were way over the top and that doctor was a criminal for what he did to those monkeys.
with that, i'm not opposed to animal testing for human health (not fucking cosmetics or other bullshit). what is the ethical line where testing becomes torture? that line is different for everyone. for me, i would equate it to the supreme courts early definition of obscenity (we don't know how to define it, but we know it when we see it). several factors come into play when trying to draw that line. some are: the animal's level of sentience, the amount of physical pain/discomfort, the amount of emotional pain/discomfort, the length of the various discomforts, and the ability of the animal to recover from said discomforts, to name a few.
Personally, I'd have drawn the line at the inducing severe depression on monkeys, what followed after that with surrogates maiming their young was quite simply sadistic in nature in my opinion.
And to Hstlr, yeah the whole MkUltra experiments were crimes against humanity. There's no telling just how common testing like that could be in this day age either, given how secretive it all is.
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